Maybe I'll add just one more thought to my explanation in the hopes this may be the one piece of the puzzle that will complete your understanding.

The cycling of the universe from Big Bang to Big Crunch is (to express it a way easy to understand.) is like a wake / sleep cycle. After the Big Crunch, the Universe reawakens and recreates itself in the Big Bang. Then the process starts over again with the same inevitable results and All things old are made new again. This cycle is unending with no beginning and no end because both the beginning and the end (as well as the consciousness of the Universe) already exists as predestined events within the Eternal Energy of the everlasting Universe.

Hope that helps. If it doesn't, then it doesn't matter because that means that we all remained unchanged and we are all still standing in the same place we started.

HD

 

I understand what you are saying. I would go as far as saying the universe itself is Godlike. I was right with you up until the point where the universe knowingly connects the different conscious parts of itself together to form a super conscious ( I think that is what you were trying to get across)

I'm just trying to understand your motive. If this is what you believe, I wouldn't call you a religious person. You clearly have an understanding of science, I think you see the beauty in the scientific understanding of the universe and the beauty in the way the universe operates as described by science.

You understand that we, some of the life of universe are a way for the universe to consciously know itself, But instead of ending it there, you are adding in a little tiny bit extra , something that doesn't really add anything extra to our understanding. I dont think you believe the conscious that belongs to the universe or God as you may call it, can intervene with the workings of the universe, so therefor answer any prayers. Also it does not leave room for heaven or any form of afterlife so I don't think that is the reason. It certainly doesn't match up with any scripture.

So I'm at a loss for understanding the reasons for your beliefs.


PS would like to add. The expansion of the universe is accelerating. Therefor the expansion of the universe has been speeding up, science has known this since Edwin Hubble discovered the light from distant galaxies had been redshifted.

Much more recently it was discovered that not only was the expansion accelerating, but the rate of acceleration was increasing too. With all the mass in the universe, gravity should be slowing down the rate of acceleration. That is not the case.

The force behind this which science knows very little about is called Dark Energy. Since this discovery it has pretty much destroyed any chance of the universe going into a big crunch.

 

No no no HD, don't pussy out on me now.

I think what happened here is philosophically you've been backed into a wall and forced to confront a flaw in your reasoning. And since you were quite comfortable in your belief system you use the very unscientific escape route of calling truce.

If you are truly a man of science you should embrace being corrected because at the end of the day it's not about what you are comfortable with it's facts.

So once again, if you can correct me on this I would be happy to accept it.

There could be no Supreme Creator of the universe because at the very early stages of the universe's evolution consciousness, intelligence, awareness of self, call it what you may, did not exist yet. Heck not even atoms existed yet.

Let's please carry on this debate. It's intriguing.

 

This shit is hilarious. Your picture or whatever it was didn't work but you yet again trying to use your barely college education (and I use that word very loosely) to make claims you can never back up and speak as if you're the expert you will never be is just always highly amusing.

Go ahead, Incubus. Teach all of us mere mortals your many truths.

 

And there goes the neighborhood. :neutral:

Let the flinging of fecal matter commence.

*darns protected clothing*

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Let me see, if my comprehensions of xnxx forum behavioral tactics is right, and I think it is, 3 or 4 pages into this debacle of a former thread, baller would have by then completely forgotten about his first incendiary post and is going to eventually play the victim and accuse someone of having 'started shit with him'.

In hindsight, this thread never stood a chance...the poor thing.

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I'm taking care of a sick freind and I am needed so I'll get back to you later.

HD

 

surely all you need is a 5 minute prayer, is the hot line down again?

 

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More bullshit then? How surprising

 

Seems you may be unaware that the oscillating model of the universe is almost certainly not a workable one. Almost all the folks who study this for a living abandoned it in the 1980s and it was permanently assigned to the dustbin by the mid-1990s. Superstrings (M-theory), D-branes, F theory, etc are the most consistent models that are currently accepted and account for lots of problems not accounted for in the oscillating universe model.

Your conclusion doesn't necessarily follow from your premise(s), I'm afraid. But it does follow from what seems to be your prejudicial viewpoint - namely, that you just have to work "god" in there somewhere - the same error many of the famous thinkers on your credentials list made centuries ago.

If it is shown that the colliding and coalescing of "branes" is what formed the existence we currently experience, how will that fit with your notion of god?

 

So little is actually known about the Universe that all predictions about its ultimate fate are purely speculative and they have changed many times over the years and will continue to change as we gather more information.

We don’t know the actual size or shape of the Universe and since the Universe creates time and space from itself as it goes, we don’t know the limits of its elasticity. Based on the discovery of Black Matter and Black Energy, scientists admit that we can only account for about 5 percent of the Observable Universe and therefore all our calculations are subject to change. We can’t see to the ends of the Universe but when we look out as far as we can see, our observations are actually based on what the Universe looked like and was doing over 13 Billion years ago. It’s something like observing the motion of the ocean from a location at the center. An observer that does not know the shape, size or depth of the ocean might after measuring the movement of the surface waves conclude that the tides will eventually empty the sea.

Here is another possibility. There are Super Black Holes that exist at the center of every galaxy and are expected to eventually gobble up their galaxies. When they are done they will roam freely throughout the Universe swallowing up other galaxies and merging with other Super Black Holes thus creating an army of Super Duper Giant Black Holes. There Super Massive Gravity will attract each other thus accelerating the merging process and creating even bigger and bigger Super Black Holes until they gobble each other up and there is only one left. (Sounds a little like the plot of the Highlander.) After swallowing up all the matter and energy in the Universe, the last remaining Black Hole will be so massive that it will collapse upon itself and become the new singularity thus starting the process all over again.

I’m not saying that’s what will happen but it’s as good a theory as any. In any case, I believe that the Universe is eternal and that eventually it will cycle from the end to the beginning. But even if the fate of the Universe was to go on expanding forever, that still does not negate everything else I've said about the development of a Super Intelligence. My belief in the Universal Mind does not rely on an oscillating Universe.

HD

PS:
Here's a plot for a future Si-Fi move. We are finally able to see to the very edge of the Universe and find that all the old galaxies have collapse into themselves and the edge of the Universe is now populated by an army of these Super Duper Black Holes. Attacked by the gravity of the remaining galaxies they have turned around and are now heading towards the center of the Universe and coming towards us. Captain Kirk and the crew of the Enterprise are immediately deployed to end the Black Hole Menace.

 

How would you demonstrate this new theory - "the universe creates time and space from itself as it goes" - and if it did so, why is there a need for some kind of super intelligent universal mind?

This is just another version of the oscillating universe theory - which has been mathematically proven to be waaaaay off base.

If you believe the universe to be "eternal", then you can not also believe that it is has a "beginning" or an "end". Those terms are not compatible. :? If it is eternal, than it can't possible have a creator, can it? If so, how?

I'm still very curious how you work sentience into some abstract idea of a "super intelligent universal mind" – one that is acting deliberately, either to kick things off, or guide them in some way. So far, it seems you're speaking from a totally Kierkegaardian point of view (except it's not a christian god in any real sense) and leaving it at the point that you, personally, have taken a "leap of faith" and really can't demonstrate anything other than the fact that you believe what you believe.

 

insightful as ever. :lol:

 

You know, he used to quote whomever it was at which his invective was aimed - now I just assume it's always you, even if you haven't posted in the thread. Don't worry - you survived evenings after the Folsom Street Fair, I'm sure you'll survive this!

 

icksnay on the Folsom streets nay

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I have tried to explain my point of view from a rational and and knowledge based prospective. Again, you'll find that in some of the older posts. No point in my writing all that again.

HD

 

Your resilience and credibility is starting to look shakier than Michael J Fox during an earth quake.

:lol: